Kate : from traumas to a flourishing sex life #22

Discover how Kate succeed to live a flourishing sex life despite multiple traumas. She will reveal you 3 main moments of her sex life.

Accept everything changes continuously, life, yourself, your partner and play with it. Make it simple.

Her advice to you: Stay curious and open your mind. Sometimes you don’t understand, that’s fine, don’t blame or judge. Just listen to the truth of each one. Implement new way of thinking in your life; it will help you to go further in many ways.

Sequences of the podcast with Kate

1:52 – Presentation of Katalin (Kate).

3:00 – Sexual life is made of many breakthrough and many little steps, it’s not easy to select 3 key moments or phases of my sexual life.

3:22 – The first major moment in my life is when I lost my virginity. It was a kind of taboo. Sex education was like explaining how a car is working, but experience it is totally different. Sex is the same, doing it is so different from the functioning.

4:30 – The first time (first penetration) was in a rush. I felt in love, together forever. But the whole experience was awful and painful.

5:06 – If this experience is what sex is about then it is not my journey. Lot of shame and guilt around it due to conditioning.

5:30 – If you lost your virginity, you become broken, like a second class to go in a new relationship or marriage.

5:57 – The second relationship was better but so far from what we can create in a flourishing relationship.

6:50 – Over and over again you are discovering and progressing. You can imagine where you can go but it’s only once you are there that you start to see there are more options, possibilities. The openness in this second relationship was a big turning point. Because before that it was hard to discuss.

7:30 – Before I lost my virginity, I was sexually abused by an adult I trusted in. So afterwards, it was difficult to open myself again with adults.

8:30 – The limit in the relationship was about knowledge and understanding. We were really open.

8:56 – I was a single mother. And I got a long relationship afterwards with someone. But there, the communication about sex and desire was an obstacle.

9:25 – Being in a relationship was part of the conditioning too, being in a monogamy relationship. It is your responsibility to express your own desire.

10:35 – I was open to learn, to go to workshop, but not my partner at that time.

10:50 – It is frequent in couple that one is ready to progress but not the other.

11:30 – If I come to you to say I want to improve. It equals “it is not good”. That’s why this approach usually fails. It doesn’t mean something went wrong. Look at products on the market, so many products exist, work and are improved anyway to become better and better.

12:12 – If you take if for yourself, from the ego, you can block the discussion. If you understand you can learn, play, everything is in progress, it is easier. The inner voice is telling us “I would like to progress, I would like to discover something”. I would like to share it. It is not related to anything you did, I would like, as a partner, to progress together. Try something new. Some people take it personally and sometime with jealousy.

13:58 – Conditioning of children too, passing by generation to generation, by indirect message by the surroundings. How we are supposed to behave, do, say.

14:40 – We are all different.

16:07 – The 3 of us are coaches, and for us too, it was a succession of small and big steps. Even with lots of tools, communication it can be challenging to express our desire for a more delightful sex life.

17:08 – It is related to the rules. When the relationship is starting, are you clear with your rules breakers (eg monogamy) ? So many times we hide our rules breakers.

19:37 – Monogamy may have complete different meaning for each of the partner. And it evolves with time.

20:10 – Start to learn what you need. How to share in an open way with your partner.

20:55 – We are changing continuously. And that’s what people doesn’t accept, in their life, work and relationship. Accept first I am changing myself as I am discovering more and more. And also my partner is changing and get different desires.

21:28 – What I found in that relationship, is that I was growing faster. I was willing to invest more energy for this growth and changes. It is a dedication to change stuff and habits. And when you become passionate, you discover more state and joy. You discover ideas and want to try. But my ex partner was not open.

23:05 – The 3rd event was the discovery of OM (Orgasmic Meditation). I waited about 2 years to start this journey. I discovered to learn about myself.

24:15 – The list of what I found beautiful in OM.

25:35 – On a deeper way, it was the first time I observed my body with simplicity. With no justifications.

27:13 – Justifying emotion is a way to give more meaning and pressure (on others) to make it happens.

28:01 – The experience of OM by Olivier.

29:39 – My biggest obstacle at the beginning as a man. How to ask to make love with my partner.

32:35 – Learn to be in the present. Each experience is different.

32:55 – Kate’s biggest lesson of OM.

33:55 – Kate’s biggest obstacle to OM. How do I love and except my body and genital.

35:09 – Camille’s big learning is about expectations and just feel. Just be and leave the expectation aside.

37:40 – Camille’s learning. Mindfulness and sexuality.

39:07 – Kate biggest joy. Finally, I don’t have to create a story. I don’t have to be someone to get something.

40:05 – Explanation of what is Orgasmic Meditation.

43:50 – Main take away of OM in your sex life. Are you willing to discover more and pay the price of what it means. Bring simplicity in my life.

46:29 – My body self acceptance and love. If the level of emotion is coming down you will see and experience simplicity in everything. I don’t have to compare my body, anything, it is me.

48:23 – Experience how we are energetic beings. Experience energy in the life.

49:50 – How the body is capable to receive on many different layers.

50:28 – One advice from Kate : Stay curious and open your mind. Sometime you don’t understand, don’t blame or judge. Just listen the truth of each. Implement new way of thinking in your life will help you to go further in many ways.

Thx for this testimonial Kate !

Podcast Transcription:

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 Olivier Mageren: [00:00:00] Welcome to this season of the podcast “Entr’Nous” by the “Love Health Center”. The podcast is a share of intimate discussions about sexuality. So welcome to this new episode. So, from now on, some episodes will be in English, most of them will remain in French, but we want to talk also in English, because already in, still in Brussels, we already have 180 nationalities. And we want also to extend the audience of the “Love Health Center”. The “Love Health Center” is a physical place in the center of Brussels, where we create workshops, talk, conversation of any kind… And co-creation about sexuality to help you to progress on your sexual wellness. My name is Olivier Mageren, I’m a sexologist, life coach and sex educator at school, and I’m here with Camille R., the producer.

Camille R.: [00:00:51] Hi, Olivier.

Olivier Mageren: [00:00:52] And today with our guest which is Katalin, welcome.

Katalin: [00:00:56] Hello.

Olivier Mageren: [00:00:57] So, I let you present yourself to the new audience, the English people.

Camille R.: [00:01:02] My name is Camille and I’m, as you said, the producer of the podcast, I’m a life coach also, a video maker and a podcast producer. And I’m passionate about sexuality and passionate about a lot of topics that just enable, myself and the world, to grow. And I’m super, super happy to co-create this project with you.

Olivier Mageren: [00:01:24] Yes, we collaborate because we have the same patient to share our joy and passion about sexuality and wellness, and we meet so many people that we have the heart to re-expand it to as much people as possible. And today we are with Katalin that also willing to participate to that generous wave, I would say.

Katalin: [00:01:45] Yeah, it is my pleasure to be here in the center of love, thank you so much for having here. And my name is Katalin and originally, I’m Hungarian, but I live in London. And, I’m a coach, also an NLP therapist and working with people. And never ever ending learner and discoverer like a kid in life. That’s what, that’s why I’m here, that’s what I want to share with you.

Olivier Mageren: [00:02:16] Yes, and when we met, I was curious about the fact that… When I see people progressing and really own their life, and are very radiant, and transmitting some kind of beautiful energy, I’m always curious to know a bit more about how the people progress in parallel in their intimate life and sexuality. And so, the goal of this episode is to share, in a subjective manner, three points of your sexual life, which are relevant for you. It could be an event, it could be a moment in your life, any kind that is meaningful and that can help people to to progress on their side.

Katalin: [00:03:01] Yes, that’s an interesting question, to find just three points, because I believe there are many breakthroughs and little steps. So, it’s hard to define just in three points, I tried my best. So, I was, I went back and defined what could be the three points. The first one is the point when I lost my virginity, because, like every other girl, I had an idea or a dream or a picture, how could it happen? What could it happen? And that time, the internet was not available, we only just could share, we spare chatty, girl chatting about the sexuality and what could happen? How could happen? All these things. And it was a kind of taboo, at that time. Of course, all of us were listening to the biology lesson, the class in the school, but it’s all about just, you know, the feature of our body, it’s nothing about really the sexuality; it’s just a mechanic. Like a description, how the car is working, you know? But driving a car is a completely different experience. So, and it for me, it was, it was awful, the first experience, because it was in a rush and I met a guy, I felt in love, and I thought he’s like, okay, together forever and it’s, it’s magical. But the whole experience was so awful and painful… Because it’s like the typical, teenager movie, what you can see is like starting with the skin, starting with the kissing, and after the hugging, and after penetration, and that’s it. And it was like 15 minutes or something like that. And I thought, it’s like, if it’s this like the whole experience, probably it’s not my journey, at that time. And I felt a lot of shame and guilt around it, because, how we conditioned, it was a value, what you must keep it for a long, long time and, I mean the virginity, you have to keep it for a long, long time. And if you lost it, you became broken, you became like a second class, to go into a relationship and into a new relationship or in a marriage. Without the virginity, it means you are broken or a second class, then thanks God, this experiment moved further. And the second point, turned into a beautiful relationship, in my life. And that was the first point when I could openly discuss with my partner, is like what is my desire? How can I imagine it? But it was only like, the first version of that because… We, we just read some magazines, like new tips, like how can you improve? But like, if you have like a 1.0 version and if you want to improve it, it’s you with some few tips you think is like, “Oh my God, it’s such a good one”, we made it, we made the progress, it’s so good. But obviously it’s far from where you can go, where you can go further, that’s why the defining three steps, it’s or three points, it’s hard because, over and over again, you are describing or discovering. It’s, up until now, I could imagine that far, I can go. Then you are going there, you discover it, and you start to see, “Oh, there are more options, that are more possibilities. There are, I can play with this and that”. So, for me, this openness in the relationship was a big turning point, because before that it was hard to discuss, even with adults, as well. Because even before I lost my virginity, I was abused sexually and, from people who I trusted in and therefore, I, I could really, hardly open myself with my just a question… Is like, how can I do that? What can I do that? Because I was afraid, it’s turning into another abusive situation, especially by men like an adult man, so….

Olivier Mageren: [00:08:05] And you told me about, that first partner who is with, who you start having an open discussion, or the possibility really to talk about relation and sexuality, you told me that the foundation was not ideal, and you progress a lot, but there were some limits. Can you talk more about it?

Katalin: [00:08:29] I think the limit came from only just the understanding, the knowledge, nothing between us, it’s not in that relationship, it was not, any other limitation. So, we were open. But unfortunately, that relationship, we broke up after two years. So, because of other reasons…. Then I started my life, I became, like a single mother. I already had a child at that time, then I had another really, long relationship. And in that relationship was, was the sexuality, the open conversation, it’s an obstacle. To, to express the desire…

Camille R.: [00:09:18] So it kind of closed you again in, in the opening that you had found.

Katalin: [00:09:25] Yes, my desire was like, finally I’m in a relationship, because that was the, the condition as well. Like the mono, like being in a monogamous relationship. That means you can share with everything just with one person, but it’s your obligation to share it what do you desire because the other person is not a mind reader, yeah, do you agree?

Camille R.: [00:09:52] It helps when you can share your own desire and not wait for the other one to, like…

Katalin: [00:09:58] Yes, it was a period, I call it when you have seen in your, in your head, it’s like how the, the intimacy should happen, is like “Okay, we are entering the room, okay we are switching off the lights, having a kiss and after hugging or different scenarios, not go with the flow, not go with the energy”. And at that time, it was, it was still in our head I believe so. But then it slowly, slowly, I expressed I would like to discover, I would like to learn more about it, or even go to the workshop or learn from different angle. But he was not open for this, at that time.

Olivier Mageren: [00:10:51] Yeah, it’s useful to, to observe that in couples. Someone is ready to progress or willing to discover new stuff with all the comfort zone it represents, and that’s the second one, just, sometimes in the fear zone or blocked, or really frozen about the topic. And it creates a lot of tension in the, in the relation, because one is really willing to, and feel ready to progress and the second is just blocking. And as it’s, usually a taboo this subject.

Katalin: [00:11:32] I believe it’s coming from the false misconception, which means if I come to you and say, it’s like “I want to improve”, that’s equal, it’s not good. That’s the reason why I want to improve. It’s not about, it’s I believe it in our mind. That means someone had a fault, did something mistake or wrongly, and that’s why we must improve, it’s not about… But if we, if we look around in the, in the business world, how many products we use, and it was really, good. And after they started to improve and became even better and better and better. Do you agree?

Olivier Mageren: [00:12:14] Yeah. Yeah, indeed when you come with such a topic on the table, if you take it for yourself, if the ego is too much present, then you block the discussion. Indeed you, everything, it’s there is placed to progress, to learn, to discover. Because otherwise life can be just, just boring, I would say. And we at some point, it’s logic that we want to discover new landscape, new experience, new sensation, and we feel already something very intimate. The inner voice inside us is telling us, “Oh, I would like to progress, I would like to discover something, and I would like to share it”. But indeed, if the discussion, the communication with the other is not, I would say, free of personal obstacle, it’s become difficult. Even if you want to discuss freely and say “It’s does not relate to anything you did. But I just would like to, as a partner, to progress together and discover something new” is even saying that some people take it for themselves, and they think they are not good enough, or it’s not good at all, or they are, I would say, jealousy can arrive or just, just coming on the table.

Katalin: [00:13:33] Yes, especially around the sexuality, because, um. Since the internet is available, I believe this is just a new generation have the success from really, early age. So many of us, conditioned by the surroundings, friends, family, country, culture and it is so many differences. And we also conditioned our children about sexuality a lot of time, even not directly, indirectly, what we are doing, how we are doing, how we are kissing, how, how do I touch you in public, at home? What do I say? How do I say? Which word do I use? Which word can I be offended by? And these things, it’s passing by generation to generation. And unfortunately, the internet is not helpful for, in this education, because everybody, or maybe this is our false belief as well, must be one way for everybody. And like a magic pill, or a magic lesson, or a magic way, but it’s not how we are experiencing the the dress up, or using different cars or living different way in, in apartment or village side or a family home, I believe the sexuality is the same. And it’s starting with me, it’s starting with my belief, how do I want to experience sexuality, the intimate life, and not afraid of saying “Okay, I try this and this and that. Maybe it’s working, maybe it’s not”. But it shouldn’t be afraid of the, it’s damaging my life because I try something.

Olivier Mageren: [00:15:29] The aim of the podcast is really to give tools to people, to help them to progress on their life and feel more comfortable, and also listen what kind of discussion we have in a sexologist, I would say, therapist session and why we created the podcast in three, this podcast in three, we describe the history of in three points. It’s just to show that we are all different, but we all can learn from each other because there are common ingredients, and we are all legitimate to talk about it. And even the three of us, we are all coaches, very opened about sexuality, but it was a succession of small and big steps. And you told me that, even recently, in your latest relation, it was or still a challenge for yourself, even if you have a lot of tools of coaching communication, to express that you want, yeah, a more joyful sex life, but your partner was not open to it. So, sometimes when we talk about sexuality, people think it’s black and white, or easy for some people and difficult for others, or just, you know, you are first and second class and say “Okay, for some people it’s so obvious and easy”. But even for professionals, sometimes, even if you have tools, you are, I will say, together in a relation with someone else. And you cannot really do alone, if you want to experiment together, and you’re…. Can you explain a bit more about your case? Because indeed it’s…

Katalin: [00:17:08] It’s coming back to the rules. When the relationship is starting, step by step, we are starting to agree in a different rule, like how we want to live. We are sharing our desires and what is the rule breakers with “Okay, sorry I cannot accept this or cannot accept that”. But after there is…

Olivier Mageren: [00:17:33] The rule breakers means that you have an agreement with someone and saying this is, if you break those rules, it’s…

Katalin: [00:17:42] Monogamy. Monogamy is a rule breaker, yeah. So, some people are saying that, it’s like, this is my rule, this is how I imagine a relationship. And if you have any kind of incident with someone else, of course it’s a wide range because for someone is only a kiss is a rule breaker, for another only a text message could be a rule breaker, so it’s a wide range, yeah.

Olivier Mageren: [00:18:11] So you break the relation, if we fit that…

Katalin: [00:18:13] Yeah, it’s a criterion, but I believe it’s no problem with boundaries and rules, because I have to express what I can accept and what is it’s not acceptable to me. Because, for example, if I have allergy to any nuts, I have to say all the time, “Sorry, I cannot eat nuts because you will kill me”. Is this true for any emotions, or relations, or any ways between people. So, many times we hide what our rule breaks. And people just trespassing our boundaries and we think it’s like “Okay, everything is fine” and you, you knew that. But the other person didn’t know that. And I’m saying, “But I told you”, “No, you didn’t tell me”, but it’s coming from the the mind. Because the mind is always feeling the details, which you did not clarify. That’s why the clarify and verify, its really, really important rules, especially with people. Of course, if someone has a marriage, documentation, it’s a different because, yeah, the contract, it’s written, it’s there you could see. But in the conversation when I say monogamy, it could be completely different meaning to you, or me, is even the same word.

Camille R.: [00:19:37] And it can also change from one period of your life to another one also. So, from what you shared with your first, like the first point that was important to you in, like losing your virginity, and then the second one is kind of: you move towards getting to know yourself better, in order to be able to feel what were your desires, what you wanted to experience, and how you could have a more beautiful experience, of like yourself through sexuality. And then what you share now is like how you could also share that in an open way with your partner, and kind of, what I feel is that, you learn what you would have needed when you were little in order to just say “That was not okay”, and that you were kind of still exploring that, because it’s, it’s a search, that we are most of us, and I guess the three of us, going on to just be able to get to know ourselves and to just speak out what we want and where our limits are. And so that is that, like, did I get it right. That’s the search that you are kind of continuing at the moment…

Katalin: [00:20:49] Yes, that’s correct. So, go back to the rules. It’s, we are all the time improving or changing. It’s true, the change is the only consistent in the life. Doesn’t change. (Camille R.: Yeah). So, this is what people doesn’t accept when they go into a relationship, or work, or anything. Like I accept first, I can be, I can change myself, because I’m discovering more and more. And, my partner who change and maybe have different desires. And, what I found out, of this relationship, is I was growing faster, or I had more…. I was willing to invest more in energy for this growth, for the change, because it takes it requires energy from you, to improve yourself, to learn. It’s an hour of dedication to change something, even just for from the, from the good to the bad one. If you change the habit is much easier than from the bad to the good one. But also, when you are passionate about something, you discover it’s like “Oh, it’s getting really good”. It’s giving me more sensation, or give me more pleasure, more joy, more state in my life. Even during the day, you could be completely different, if you have an amazing night at the previous day.

Camille R.: [00:22:24] Mhm. So, that’s what you discovered through this, the second point, is kind of that there is a super broad list of experiences that you could explore to get to know yourself, to do you good, to be in connection with your partner.

Katalin: [00:22:41] And also you are getting new ideas, new you are getting new imaginations. And you want to try it, you want to discover it. At that time, he was not open about it. And I, we get somehow, we get to the point and say “Okay, it’s, we cannot cope with each other anymore”. Not just because of that, because of many other things. And that’s turned into the third point, when I started my own experience, the orgasmic meditation. It’s funny enough, I heard about Home in the relationship, and together we were at the event, when we met that person who mentioned, is like, my eye was like, blink. And uh, he was like, “I’m not sure”. And I just said it’s like “Come, come, let’s have a try. Let’s, let’s discover it”. It’s like, “Oh no, no, thank you. It’s not for me. It’s not my cup of tea and etc..” So, I had to wait approximately two years, to start this journey. So, I choose to, I choose to, not give up the idea. So, I step on the journey, and started to learn, and discover myself, and discover a lot of traumas that I kept inside me. Because Home it’s a beautiful opportunity to learn basic rules, what is related to men and women. This is what I found beautiful in the Home. So, first, women can express and ask without, think about what is the price of asking, what I must pay for this desire? And it’s safe, I felt safe from the beginning, because there is a clear boundary, there is a clear rule. Everything managed by and written also. So, it’s not a surprise from the beginning, they are explaining, they are teaching the rules and within the rules, or within this space, you can discover yourself, freely. You can, you have this safety, someone who hold the space for you, and it’s a man. And you can experience the masculinity, and you can be feminine, you can be in the present and remove all these thoughts, what is in your head about how supposed to be, how you should be? Do I body right? Am I good enough? Is that big enough? Is that small enough? Is that soft enough? And all of these, compare us in the head, but I believe many, many in many women had, it’s like day-by-day basis measurement.

Camille R.: [00:25:35] So it brought you back in a way to your body, right?

Katalin: [00:25:39] Yes. Even on a deeper way, it was the first time to experience, to observe my body. As a, as not, it’s just, this with the simplicity, just my body. What is the body sensation? And, for me, it was really hard to describe at the beginning what the body sensation, just itself. Without the emotion, without the description of the emotion, without, high, without low. It’s just, the simple description of body sensation.

Camille R.: [00:26:18] No interpretation, no big story linked to.

Katalin: [00:26:22] Yeah not satisfying, not justifying, nothing. It’s just: this is what’s happened. It’s like, it’s raining outside or not.

Camille R.: [00:26:31] Yeah, it really resonates with, an experience that I’ve had lately about self-validation. And I feel that’s something that, I lacked in my story. And I can maybe make a link with yours, and just kind of being able to observe what we feel. And just validate the feeling, having no story to be attached to it just, you know. “Yeah, okay, I feel that. Okay, I feel that” just… And then kind of moving on, and being able to discover yourself through, through this process.

Katalin: [00:27:02] Yeah, it’s really resonated with me. Yeah, because, justify your emotions, it’s a way to give more meanings and more pressure to make it happen. So, for example, when you were a kid, it’s like if you are expressing more and more and justifying more and more, you have higher chance to get it. Like a naughty child. And we learned this, and to go back, it’s, it’s okay if I feel this way. And it doesn’t mean, it’s like colors, it’s blue, red, yellow. It doesn’t mean, it’s, if you compared to each other, have challenges to be the red, to be red, compared to the blue, with blue. It’s not that lack. What is your experience with Home?

Olivier Mageren: [00:28:03] With Home? Yeah, as a man, it was an absolutely beautiful experience because, first, it’s the first time in my sex life that I don’t have to. I allow myself just to be. And without the, I would say, being in the action or having my kind of unconscious, obligation of doing something, or maybe whatever the performance or whatever, just be there, without any expectation, really, that no expectation on just be there for the sensation. And it’s the same for the partner, it’s just beautiful, we are there to share a moment with a lot of safety and care, and nothing is expected on both sides. We are just there to feel and experiment. For me it was just a completely new experience which really changed my mindset, and the way I can feel my sensation, because it’s really, I was already very sensible on many points. Basically, when people talk about me, even before the orgasmic meditation practice, I’m someone very sensible. But there I open new doors with myself, and I get more. I discover a new world of sensation that I can really, I would say, radiate and share with my partner, and with…. With anyone in my life, in any situation, I’m quieter and my ability to be present increase drastically.

Katalin: [00:29:42] What was your biggest obstacle as at the beginning? As a man?

Olivier Mageren: [00:29:47] I think the biggest, maybe the most challenging obstacle for me was really to ask. It’s funny because for most women, having the ability to say “yes, no” and owning our own desire, it’s, due to the education, it’s more challenging than men. And we think that for men it’s easy to ask, but for me, asking is a challenge because it’s just like, you know, when you ask more or less than the partner, is it adequate? Or is it interpreted? How is it received? What will be the answer? I’m free of any reaction. Can I ask it? I am too much. Does the partner is enough, you know, or I am frustrated? It is so much mind disturbance around the just asking. And for me, the main challenge was that, how to talk about sexually? How to say I would love to make love? It’s not that, there is no comparison, it’s not coming from a scarcity or a, you know, a lack of something. It’s just the joy of making it, you know, and that was a huge challenge, because I was really in trouble to ask. And because it’s why I was not really, stable when I ask, it come from different emotions, from different needs, from different conditions or different moment in my life. It was not consistent at all. Probably not safe for the partner neither. And it was putting me in trouble a lot.

Katalin: [00:31:28] It sounded like a women side, because for me as well, asking was the difficulties, asking and receiving. When I asked, someone asked me a question. It’s like, can I say yes? Can I say no? It’s like, how do I look? Like what this person will say, am I needy if I’m asking more? Like more times to have because the rule in Home is very simple and followable to everybody it’s like 15 minutes exercise. So, it’s, you know what you can expect during the, about the rules, what will happen, how will happen. And, the expectation was, was a challenge to me, because once you experience the first Home and you experienced the joy, the freedom within a safe environment, you may have this expectation “Okay, if I come in, like if I’m experienced more and more times, I have more and more joy”. But if you are in a present, so if you learn really the Home practice and being in the present, you will discover every single Home is different. Because you are in a different state, your partner is in different state, maybe if the same partner. So, I’m not and you can, you could have another partner also. And once you, once it’s clicking in your mind like “Okay for this 15 minute I’m switching off everything, every expectation, every previous experience. And just for 15 minutes I can focus on here, right here, right now. What I feel, how I feel, what I, what I am experiencing through my body”, this was one of the biggest lessons of Home. And, after that, I extracted this lesson and invented in my other areas of my life. So, when I’m go for a business meeting or I’m with a client, I’m not focusing on results. Sometimes I just be in the present and see what is there here, because you can get much more understanding, if you ask, if you are in the present and if you are asking the right question, right here, right now. Because how many things are changing day by day? For me, the biggest obstacles were the rule you must be half naked. And it’s, again, about the relation with the, with our own body, like how do we love our own body? And how do we accept, especially the genitals? How does it look like? What is the color? What is the smell? What is the touch? What is the the joy? How it’s even the most submission as well, is so big topic, which we could talk about it maybe next time. So, just to accept myself as, as it’s, how it is, and not thinking about it. Like measuring, comparing, and just be there, and focusing on the right here, right now. Because functionally I have everything, for this 15 minute, to be happy, to experience the joy and that’s it, that’s enough. And that, being enough feeling was a big, big joy, out of Home. And for you, what was the biggest obstacles?

Camille R.: [00:35:12] I just wanted to share what came because it’s, it brings me back to this kind of validation. And I think one I’m going to come back to the obstacle just after but… One big learning was just kind of this new expectation, that also you mentioned, about not wanting to experience joy, not wanting to come, not wanting to have pleasure, just being able to… For me what is just is just kind of feeling, you know, and just creating a space where you can just feel whether it’s fear, any kind of sensation, whether it’s not feeling, it’s just this. And I think this was also one of the biggest challenges is to come without expectations, you know, and just kind of leave them on the side when I started the practice and be like, I have no clue what’s going to happen. Maybe nothing is going to happen, maybe I’m not going to feel anything, maybe people around me will have completely different reactions that, than me, that will trigger expectations out of me, you know, like all that kind of thing. And, and I like what you said about, you know, like that you took that learning into other areas of your life. Because we live, in general with a lot of expectations, how we have been raised, you know, like, even just to, and I’m going to speak for myself, but I feel that I’ve been raised with a lot of expectations, whether it’s for myself, for people, for the society. I should do this, I should do that, I should not do this I should not do that, my body should do it, my body should not do that, you know. You should come easily, you should blah blah blah, you should love this… Like, expectations all over the place. And just having a space where you can just, you know, like be and really leave the expectations when you enter the space, that was really, really, a beautiful experience. And I like to like also bring it to different areas, which remains a challenge also. So yes.

Katalin: [00:37:32] So what is your experience? What the major excuse what people brings on the table when they talk about Home?

Camille R.: [00:37:43] Well, I guess you have a lot. You may have more than me, but I guess what I can share…. Is, it’s kind of weird, it’s such a different approach to, like what I like to say, its mindfulness, so. And first people are like, yeah, but it’s sexual. Like you are kind of touching sexual areas. So, it’s linked to sexuality but then it’s kind of mindfulness. So, it’s a part of the body, it could be another one and still have the some of the same characteristics. So, having to explain that it’s sexual, but not sexual in the way that we have kind of learned it, you know, and that there is no aim at any orgasm and that they may not have any excitement, you know, and but they may be, but it’s kind of taking something completely outside of everything that I feel I’ve learned from the, like around sexuality, and just kind of starting over with no, a priori. No kind of, you know, how do you say that? Uh, no. Clear, uh, it’s going to be like that, it’s going to be like that, it’s going to be like that and just, yeah, coming and kind of this exploration that you mentioned before, it’s starting from scratch and just see, witnessing, what’s happening.

Katalin: [00:39:11] My biggest happiness when I heard about Home was, finally, I don’t have to create a story or act like somebody to have any kind of experience. And for me, it was the one of the biggest reliefs. It’s, I don’t have to be someone to get something. It’s a simple asking. Of course, at the beginning, it’s asking a stranger, “Would you like to home?”. It felt like, even I was thinking about it, I said, it’s like, “Oh, my God, I cannot imagine this”. It’s coming that, that simple way, it’s like “Would you like to eat an apple or apple? Uh, question”. But after many practices, it turned into that, that simple, is like “Would you like to Home”. So maybe it would be a great point to describe what is Home for those who didn’t know. What do you think, Olivier? Just explain in a in a simple word.

Olivier Mageren: [00:40:18] Yes indeed, but we do not explain it, yet.

Camille R.: [00:40:21] We can, there are a lot of episodes where we talk about Home also, for people who want.

Olivier Mageren: [00:40:26] Yeah, we already made episode in French to explain what it is. (Katalin: But also, for those who doesn’t), so people can also have a look to the website, it’s described also, there are some data. But briefly, the orgasmic meditation is a meditation with a genital touch of the clitoris, and it’s usually between a man and a woman, but it could be between two women also. But at least as, it’s a touch, based on the touch of the clitoris, we need at least one woman for sure, independently of the gender classification, whatever I would say, a female. We can say that in English easily. And it’s 15 steps, very clear steps from the request to the end of the experience. Very simple one. And the main phase is indeed 15 minutes of, what we call a Stroke: is just a small movement on the clitoris for 15 minutes, and just be present, about the effect of the sexual energy. And listen, what is emerging inside us, in the sensation, and afterwards share that experience of sensation. And that’s it. It’s very, very, very simple. But as you mentioned, it could be very, confronting because all the small steps can be like being a half-naked, a big challenge for people, but really helping, because what I really like in orgasmic meditation is that it provides from experience of many people I helped, a strong and long-term change. It’s very stable change, when you start to experience new sensation, new way to communicate, that really remain active, and propagate that in your entire life usually. And you don’t look at the past, it’s not a therapy, you’re not look at the trauma or whatever. You just allow yourself to be in the present, feel the sensation and just doing new experiment with no expectation. It just healing by itself, and you create a new connection with your body, a new way of being connected with someone, a new way of communicating, and step by step it become your own standard. And whatever your past, it could be awkward, painful, big trauma, abuse or whatever. It always brings you to a better place, with a very stable, I would say, the change is there and remain there for forever.

Camille R.: [00:43:04] Yeah, it’s really a practice of self-validation from what we’ve shared for me, it just witnessing what is. And as there is a step where you are witnessing the, like the vagina, the sex of the woman, and there is no interpretation. There is no, it’s, it’s beautiful, it’s not, it’s just simple validation of what you see. And removing this interpretation, removing this additional emotion, this additional story that we often put on what we live, it’s just really freeing. So, yeah, that’s one of the, the beautiful part. I really, I really like it.

Olivier Mageren: [00:43:52] Just to summaries you. So, you took the orgasmic meditation as a main event in your sex life. If you can just summaries what was the main, I would say, takeaway for you. From now or for how long are you practicing, and what was the main takeaway triggers? What is the main takeaway, in your sex life? What did it change? Maybe everything, I don’t know…

Katalin: [00:44:19] Oh, many, many aspects. I just summarizing some of them is a reputation of what I previously said. First, we conditioned, on one way, but it could be much more. And are you willing to discover more? This is the first question. Are you curious about what is available more, and are you willing to pay the price of the exercise, of the practice, and going through the first uncomfortable feeling because of the previous condition? Are you willing to change? This is the first question, and I said “Yes”, because I was desiring more. It was in my belief; it should be more than just what I experienced in the past. Asking and receiving, it’s really, important, cycle in the life. And if you look out in the nature, animals and the plants, they are not asking permission to receive. They just receive it, whatever it’s it’s coming, whatever is available for them. And they have no drama, or trauma, or anything about to asking. Or to get it what they need, and it’s so simple, and this simplicity came to my life to not being attached. It’s, is it a big or small what I’m asking or measuring to others? This is my life, this is what I need, this is what I desire and I’m looking for the way to get it. I’m not asking “Is it possible or not? Is it really my desire or not?” It’s just “I desire this, and I find a way. If it’s this, it’s, I’m so happy. If it’s other one, maybe I need more search or more finding”, so, this simplicity came to me. Also coming back to the self-love and the self-acceptance of the body, the body shape, the body look, the color of the genitals, and many other things, which can be frustrating for many people, especially I believe for women, that the genitals are big topic. Because also we’ve seen a lot of, sexual movies where beautiful vaginas are there. And compared to that, my maybe my vagina is not good enough and it’s a lot of emotions around it. So, I learned, if your emotion is slowing down, the level of emotion is slowing down, you will see the simplicity. You will see the beauty, in everything. And that’s why I don’t have to compare my body, don’t have to compare my shape, don’t have to compare anything. It’s, it is me, and the whole of me, to accept it. And having fun because, being involved in the Home community, you can meet with a lot of people and it’s creating an instant connection, just because you are you exercising, like a dancing community, or any other community. It’s so simple to create a connection with another human being. And, you can have a conversation and you can open even more, about your questions or asking help. How did they go through this or that? So, it helped me to create more connections in life. And one more, and it’s a big, big benefit to experience the body, it’s more than just a physical limitation or the boundaries, my skin or my…. My, uh, physical appearance, like how we are energetic being, and how many body, new body sensation, you could recognize, and discover yourself. How do you experience energy in the life? And then, it’s, you discover you, you are experiencing not just through home, on a day-by-day basis, you, even you just right, maybe not right now but… You are travelling on a train or on on a tube and you could have this sensation just because someone standing on your side. But, on a simpler way, many people experience that you meet a new person, and you already have some feelings about that person without any description. And after that, you the path is unfolding and you discover the relation with that person and you just finding out, yeah, my first impression was good. So, these energy worlds, it’s a big, big, big discovery. And how your body capable to receive to experience, especially the genitals, even more than just, the touch, softness or hardness or speed, on, on many different layers. I think that was the most beautiful experience through all.

Olivier Mageren: [00:50:18] Thank you. Thank you for your share. It’s beautiful and vulnerable to share all of this with us.

Katalin: [00:50:27] Thank you for inviting.

Olivier Mageren: [00:50:28] And, usually we close the podcast with just some advice, just something you would like to share with people. Even not related with one of the topics you mentioned, but just one advice for them to progress in their sexual life.

Katalin: [00:50:48] Stay curious. And open your mind, because sometimes, even you don’t understand what’s happening, how it’s happening. If you start to find the reason on a positive way, not on a faulty, or blaming way, it’s like, whose fault? It’s literally even you, you don’t like a food. And I’m using an example because it’s easier to understand, you don’t like a food, but someone loves it. You can ask “Can you explain me, what do you love about this food, because for me it’s totally new, I cannot understand how could you love this? Because it’s for me, it’s disgusting”. And just listen, and just accept, if that person will share what is the truth from their side, and out of that, you can learn and implement new way of thinking in your life, and that will help you to to move further in many ways.

Olivier Mageren: [00:51:52] Thank you.

Camille R.: [00:51:55] Yeah. Thank you for your beautiful share. I really enjoy, you know, seeing how from a traumatized childhood, you can just blossom into a woman that is just taking care of herself and finding the curiosity in the difficulty to just grow. And I think it’s it’s a beautiful share to anybody that is going to listen to that podcast. So thank you for that

Katalin: [00:52:26] Thank you.

Olivier Mageren: [00:52:28] Thank you. Thank you, Kathleen, for this beautiful share full of, I would say, inspiration I hope for people that maybe have had similar experience with you, at least about through trauma and maybe lack of education or difficulties in relationship. I would like to thank also Camille R. for her, which is producing this beautiful podcast with us, for so long. Also, we’d like to thank you, to thank “The podcast Factory Org” which is a partner of the podcast. And if you have loved this podcast, please share it around you, talk about it, speak about us. And if you want also to share, even offline, you can come physically in the “Love Health Center”, you can call us, whatever, or come in the in front of the microphone and just share your own story. And if you have something very important to share about sexuality and wellness, you are welcome to contact us. We are also looking for fundings and money to produce the podcast, so if you have any advice to find that money, please call us.

Camille R.: [00:53:45] And today on the mic we had Katalin, Olivier and me: Camille.